Christians and Politics

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Permalink Reply by Meg on July 1, 2009 at 12:39am

Put it this way, if we don't, who will???

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Permalink Reply by ƒlame on July 1, 2009 at 6:09pm

I think that's a good way to put it.

I just posted this discussion because lately, I've discovered how many Christians don't believe that we should be involved in any politics. "After all," they say, "Jesus was not a political activist."

So I was just wondering what people on this site think.

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Permalink Reply by Meg on July 2, 2009 at 1:15pm

Honestly, and I've been hesitating to say this because it is so painful for so many, I think the Republican Right Wing has had their Christian lampstand removed as spoken of in Revelation, because of all the hidden sins harbored by their leaders. Ted Haggard was the Christian spiritual advisor to President Bush, yet he was hiding his homosexuality. Then we have Mark Stanford, governor of my home state, South Carolina, who was having an extramarital affair. There was another Republican who announced he was leaving his wife for a man, I don't remember his name or if he was a Christian. There were a few other examples over the last ten years or so, but I wasn't paying close attention, and I only really noticed the pattern and the fall of the Republican party recently.

I said somewhere else recently that publicly professing Christians defend divorce, and in the case of Sarah Palin, having a child out of wedlock (fornication) while they condemn abortion. God condemns all these things, and for good reason too. We need only look at the carnage of broken lives with honest compassion to see why God's commands are not some "legalistic prison", but the only sensible way to live with each other and ourselves.

The world in general and America in particular desperately need people to stand in high profile positions of leadership, demonstrating in the way they live their lives, handle their challenges and conduct their public business, that everything Jesus Christ lived for, died for and rose from the dead to proclaim is of great high value because it works.

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Permalink Reply by ƒlame on July 2, 2009 at 1:26pm

Well said.

I know that in the past, there have been "waves" of parties being in power... the republican party fails, so the democratic party wins for a while... then it fails, and people elect the republicans again.

But it seems to me that because of recent events, this is the crux of it. This is the turning point. This is the ultimatum. American society, once and for all, is being faced with question that has been rising for the past 75 years: "Do we want God?" And they're finally saying "NO."

And I personally think that if more of the church was doing what it was supposed to be doing, we may have more of a voice to say, "Yes, we want God!" But it's too late. We're not a voice... we're a squeal. Now we have no choice but to follow God's plan for our lives, whatever it may be, and recognize that it will most likely be a hard one... and remember that He is sovereign, and has already overcome the world. John 16:33.

I often consider how persecution does not smother Jesus Christ... on the contrary, it produces a witness for Christ. Because of the fact that America's Christian witness is so pathetic, I wonder if God's about to force a witness out of us by bringing on the persecution. Because He certainly has already begun to let such persecution through the door.

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Permalink Reply by Linda on July 2, 2009 at 1:39pm

Meg, have you seen this clip on you tube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQOCvthw-o

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Permalink Reply by Meg on July 2, 2009 at 7:00pm

Hi Flame, you said:

"And I personally think that if more of the church was doing what it was supposed to be doing, we may have more of a voice to say, "Yes, we want God!" But it's too late. We're not a voice... we're a squeal. Now we have no choice but to follow God's plan for our lives, whatever it may be, and recognize that it will most likely be a hard one... and remember that He is sovereign, and has already overcome the world. John 16:33."

I don't think its too late, but I do think the church in general has been browbeaten by unbelievers until most people would rather obey them by trying to "fit in", rather than stand for Biblical truth. I also think modern people have become so used to push-button solutions and self indulgence that "feeling good" has become the highest value.

Take divorce, for example. Every single married couple I have ever known well have had to get past a point where divorce seemed like a good solution to problems they were having. Some couples give up and get divorced, but the ones who don't are the ones with the solid marriages which are as solid as they are because they had to work for it. Now faith is like that too. Building faith, developing a prayer life, becoming Christlike, that takes work. It takes effort, and it takes respect for Jesus Christ. We're not seeing much of that in the public arena, and that casual attitude towards Christianity in general and Jesus Christ in particular is costing us.

I sat up in prayer last night, and I wondered at the fact that American families will sit and watch all sorts of depravity on TV together, with even little kids seeing people doing just about anything on TV, but they've somehow gotten too embarrassed to pray together! I don't understand what's wrong with praying for the kid's schools and for any issues everyone's willing to talk about in front of each other. I wondered how much different my own life may have been if my own family would have prayed together about the very issues everyone was screaming about, and I just grieved! I was in my 40's before I realized that praying about life was a good idea!!! My 40's! Of all the things Christians like to claim they value, prayer seems to hit the two or so minutes anyone seems to think they have to spare, then they ask why their kids don't go to church. Nothing is going to change until people dig in and do things differently for good reasons. Talk is cheap, if people have to be told someone's a Christian or they never would have guessed, somethings wrong. Instead, they should be asking if you're a Christian, because they can tell by how we speak and how we act that we're a little different in a very special way.

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Permalink Reply by ƒlame on July 2, 2009 at 9:27pm

Wow, Meg. Good insight. I completely agree.

Just to touch on one thing you said: I also had to come to a point in my life where I realized the power of prayer. Not for GETTING stuff, but for communing with God. It took me forever to realize that. It took me forever to realize that I am a disciple of Christ, which will require some sacrifices, some pain, and some living in the world but not of it. But it also brings so much joy! I think that's horribly sad... that talking to our Creator is on the bottom of the Christian priority list. At my church, my pastor began to have a designated small group prayer time in the morning... and would you believe that people complained that the prayer time was disruptive to the service, and some people came late on purpose so that they would miss the prayer?

Do you think the American Christian culture will ever change for the better?

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Permalink Reply by Meg on July 3, 2009 at 1:51pm

Oh Flame, I am so deeply encouraged to hear that your are breaking through!!! For me, the “prosperity preaching” nearly broke me! That simply hasn’t been my experience; when a friend died suddenly at 43 years old two years ago, I got one last chance to see Jonathan at his job where I used to work. He said “Only baby Christians believe prosperity preaching” and I nearly fainted with relief! It is because of the prosperity preaching and the fact that the most visible work of Jesus Christ in the Gospels is healing the infirm that people think prayer is only a means to an end. I think that’s why people in your church did what they did, and that is just tragic.

It has been my experience that the thing that seems most important to Jesus Christ is actually teaching me. He has indeed intervened in my emotional life in the most profound and spectacular ways, but that seems to be because forgiveness is the only way to achieve Spiritual protection and closeness to God. Forgiveness includes yourself as well as others, and it seems to be extremely important.

The other missing and extremely important ingredient is reverence for God, or in other words, simple respect for Jesus Christ. It is not possible to love Someone you can’t respect, and its not possible to respect Someone you don’t understand. Therefore, it is, at least in my mind, important to ask Jesus Christ in prayer for His insight. He is, by nature, extremely wise and extremely patient. Endlessly faithful as well… It must be understood that an Anointing is not something God turns us loose with so we don’t need Him any more, an Anointing is more like a tool He trusts us to use so we can help Him do what He intends to do anyway. An Anointing is also given to us so that we can get to know Him better, to understand Him and thus to trust Him more.

I don’t think we get anywhere near God without a fight. That’s not just my own impression, there are so many testimonies of trouble and tragedy to be overcome, and of the depths of faith gained by standing firm. You asked “Do you think the American Christian culture will ever change for the better?” The majority, the mainstream? Well, frankly, I’m not optimistic based on what I see going on. But based on what I know about Jesus Christ, I think there may well be one final great flaring of Holy Light before its all said and done. Jesus Christ does not give up easily, Praise His Holy Name for that. So the more of us who can be found to trust Him and respect Him enough to take it very seriously when He says “If you love Me you will obey what I command” (John 14:15), the better the odds that this will come to pass.

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